TFNR - Classical Information - Revision history

Paolo at 17:33, 13 August 2026

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Paolo at 17:24, 13 August 2026

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Paolo at 16:02, 2 August 2026

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Paolo at 18:05, 13 January 2025

2025-01-13T18:05:26Z

Paolo: Created page with "From every page of this work emerges the need to abandon determinism, especially radical determinism which is also realism in a reductive sense: chance does not exist, God doe..."

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Created page with "From every page of this work emerges the need to abandon determinism, especially radical determinism which is also realism in a reductive sense: chance does not exist, God doe..."

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From every page of this work emerges the need to abandon determinism, especially radical determinism which is also realism in a reductive sense: chance does not exist, God does not play dice. Reality emerges from chaos. The process by which Reality emerges from chaos and is structured in increasingly broad and articulated levels of growing complexity is the Process of Formation of Reality, which is the backbone of the model of description of Reality hypothesized and proposed here.

But the opposite is not true either, that everything is chaos, as we might believe in an extreme interpretation of indeterminism / probabilism. As we have just recalled, Reality is incessantly formed in the tension between chaos and order, in chaos - order processes that are expressed in dynamic disequilibriums around peaks of organization of complexity. The two terms, determinism and indeterminism, are not opposed. One, indeterminism, contains the other, determinism, as a special case, a limit case. Or rather, as an approximation, or an image seen from afar.

The processes that characterize what we describe as deterministic dynamic systems, the systems of classical physics, are precisely deterministic processes in which the physical quantities involved can be determined with arbitrary certainty. It is true that in the classical field there are fields in which chaos erupts, but this is determined by the complexity of the system and the relationships between the parts (deterministic chaos, chaotic attractors, etc.). But this chaos is not ontological, it does not concern the very nature of reality, of fundamental entities, of the most elementary processes, as in the field of quantum phenomena, intrinsically indeterministic.

Therefore, Classical Information as a subset, a particular case of Quantum Information. Or better yet, both as evolutionary stages of the Formation of Reality. Phases that coexist in nested levels of Reality. Classical Information as a sort of "certain" cherry on an immense and underground "uncertain" cake, Quantum Information. But the whole cake, if we want to describe it completely and in depth, can only be described by Processes that are and must be, at the same time, indeterministic (probabilistic, stochastic) and deterministic (classical).

The two components will have different weights and dynamics depending on whether we are analyzing the movement of an electron in an atom, or even more so, of a quark in a nucleon, or if we are measuring the movement of a galactic bubble in a cluster of galaxies, or even just the position of the moon with respect to the earth. It is clear that it is a matter of choosing what we want to do. If we intend to measure the distance of the moon with a precision of one tenth of the diameter of a proton, assuming that we can build such a precise instrument (an ad hoc interference?), the weight of the indeterminate, probabilistic component will be present and will introduce a quantity of uncertainty, but it will weigh very little (because one tenth of the diameter of a proton is thought to be about 0.84 femtometers, or 0.84 times 10 to the -15 meters, compared to an average distance of 384,400,000 meters, always a very small quantity). Furthermore, the position, movement, speed, acceleration, size, etc. of the moon and the earth, as well as the extension and shape of Space-time, in which this system is immersed, are in constant fluctuation.

In short, it is about perspective, about desired / necessary precision, possible... The meaning of these words is that what we call classical Information, even when it is not affected by deterministic chaotic components, is always an approximation, in a certain sense an illusion, that chaos does not exist. And instead chaos is always there, in the factory of Reality, at the most elementary level, ontological chaos, and if we do not see it it is because either we do not want to see it deliberately because it disturbs us, or we are looking at the scene from afar and the resolution of our eyes is not sufficient to make us see it. Approximation or illusion, or both things together. Thinking carefully, we can say that in many occasions it is useful and comfortable to reason about Physical Reality without this uncomfortable inconvenience: chaos, uncertainty, indeterminacy.

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 Therefore, even though the idea that chance does not lie at the foundation of Physical Reality cannot be considered correct, '''the opposite is not true either — that everything is chaos, and that everything must be expressed in probabilistic terms'''. In an extreme interpretation of indeterminism or probabilism, one might believe that order is an illusion. Instead, Reality is incessantly formed in the tension between chaos and order — in chaos–order processes expressed as dynamic disequilibria around peaks of organized complexity. Determinism and indeterminism are not opposed. '''Indeterminism contains determinism as a special case, a limit case, an approximation, an image seen from afar'''.
+Therefore, '''Classical Information is a subset, a particular case of Quantum Information'''. Or better, both are evolutionary stages of the Formation of Reality — phases that coexist in nested levels of Reality. '''Classical Information is a "certain" cherry on an immense and underground "uncertain" cake: Quantum Information'''. But the whole cake, if we want to describe it in depth, can only be described by Processes that are, at the same time, indeterministic (probabilistic, stochastic) and deterministic (classical), and all the shades in between.
-The processes that characterize what we describe as deterministic dynamic systems, the systems of classical physics, are precisely '''deterministic processes in which the physical quantities involved can be determined with arbitrary certainty'''. It is true that in the classical field there are fields in which chaos erupts, but this is determined by the complexity of the system and the relationships between the parts (deterministic chaos, chaotic attractors, etc.). But this chaos is not ontological, it does not concern the very nature of Reality, of fundamental entities, of the most elementary processes, as in the field of quantum phenomena, intrinsically indeterministic.
-−
-The processes that characterize deterministic dynamic systems — the systems of classical physics — are precisely '''deterministic processes in which the physical quantities involved can be determined with arbitrary certainty'''. It is true that classical systems may exhibit chaos, but this chaos arises from the complexity of the system and the relations among its parts (deterministic chaos, chaotic attractors). This chaos is not ontological; it does not concern the fundamental nature of Reality, as happens in quantum phenomena, intrinsically indeterministic.
-−
-−
-Therefore, '''Classical Information as a subset, a particular case of Quantum Information. Or better yet, both as evolutionary stages of the Formation of Reality'''. Phases that coexist in nested levels of Reality. '''Classical Information as a sort of "certain" cherry on an immense and underground "uncertain" cake, Quantum Information'''. But the whole cake, if we want to describe it completely and in depth, can only be described by Processes that are and must be, at the same time, indeterministic (probabilistic, stochastic) and deterministic (classical).
-−
-Therefore, '''Classical Information is a subset, a particular case of Quantum Information'''. Or better, both are evolutionary stages of the Formation of Reality — phases that coexist in nested levels of Reality. '''Classical Information is a “certain” cherry on an immense and underground “uncertain” cake: Quantum Information'''. But the whole cake, if we want to describe it in depth, can only be described by Processes that are, at the same time, indeterministic (probabilistic, stochastic) and deterministic (classical).
-−
-−
-'''The two components will have different weights and dynamics depending on whether we are analyzing the movement of an electron in an atom, or even more so, of a quark in a nucleon, or if we are measuring the movement of a galactic bubble in a cluster of galaxies, or even just the position of the moon with respect to the earth'''. It is clear that it is a matter of choosing what we want to do. If we intend to measure the distance of the moon with a precision of one tenth of the diameter of a proton, assuming that we can build such a precise instrument (an ad hoc interference?), the weight of the indeterminate, probabilistic component will be present and will introduce a quantity of uncertainty, but it will weigh very little (because one tenth of the diameter of a proton is thought to be about 0.84 femtometers, or 0.84 times 10 to the -15 meters, compared to an average distance of 384,400,000 meters, always a very small quantity). Furthermore, the position, movement, speed, acceleration, size, etc. of the moon and the earth, as well as the extension and shape of Space-time, in which this system is immersed, are in constant fluctuation.
 '''The two components have different weights and dynamics depending on the scale of analysis'''. The movement of an electron in an atom, or of a quark in a nucleon, is dominated by indeterministic dynamics; the motion of a galactic bubble in a cluster of galaxies, or even the position of the Moon relative to the Earth, is dominated by deterministic dynamics. It depends on what we want to do. If we measure the distance of the Moon with a precision of one tenth of a proton diameter, the indeterministic component will be present, but negligible. Moreover, the position, motion, speed, acceleration, size of the Moon and Earth, and the extension and shape of Space‑time in which they are immersed, are in constant fluctuation.
+'''In short, it is a matter of perspective, of desired or necessary precision'''. What we call Classical Information, even when not affected by deterministic chaotic components, is always an approximation — in a certain sense an illusion — that chaos does not exist. And yet chaos is always there, in the factory of Reality, at the most elementary level: ontological chaos. If we do not see it, it is because we do not want to see it (we regard it as a disturbance), or because we are looking from afar and the resolution of our eyes — or of our instruments — is insufficient. Approximation or illusion, or both. In many situations it is useful and comfortable to reason about Physical Reality without this uncomfortable inconvenience: chaos, uncertainty, indeterminacy.
-'''In short, it is about perspective, about desired / necessary precision, possible...''' The meaning of these words is that '''what we call classical Information, even when it is not affected by deterministic chaotic components, is always an approximation, in a certain sense an illusion, that chaos does not exist'''. And instead chaos is always there, in the factory of Reality, at the most elementary level, ontological chaos, and if we do not see it it is because either we do not want to see it deliberately because it disturbs us, or we are looking at the scene from afar and the resolution of our eyes is not sufficient to make us see it. Approximation or illusion, or both things together. Thinking carefully, we can say that in many occasions it is useful and comfortable to reason about Physical Reality without this uncomfortable inconvenience: chaos, uncertainty, indeterminacy.
-−
 '''In short, it is a matter of perspective, of desired or necessary precision'''. What we call Classical Information, even when not affected by deterministic chaotic components, is always an approximation — in a certain sense an illusion — that chaos does not exist. And yet chaos is always there, in the factory of Reality, at the most elementary level: ontological chaos. If we do not see it, it is because we do not want to see it, or because we are looking from afar and the resolution of our eyes is insufficient. Approximation or illusion, or both. In many situations it is useful and comfortable to reason about Physical Reality without this uncomfortable inconvenience: chaos, uncertainty, indeterminacy.
-−
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← Older revision		Revision as of 17:24, 13 August 2026
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−	From every page of this work emerges '''the need to abandon determinism, especially radical determinism which is also realism in a reductive sense''': chance does not exist, God does not play dice. Reality emerges from chaos. The process by which Reality emerges from chaos and is structured in increasingly broad and articulated levels of growing complexity is the Process of Formation of Reality, ~~which is~~ the backbone of the model ~~of description of Reality hypothesized and~~ proposed here.	+	From every page of this work emerges '''the need to abandon determinism — especially radical determinism, which is also realism in a reductive sense''': the idea that chance does not exist, that God does not play dice. I, on the contrary, think that Reality emerges from chaos, and that it evolves toward increasingly higher levels of organization, where '''chance gradually gives way — at least partially — to certainty'''. And further, that under the right conditions this interplay of mixed processes, stochastic and deterministic at the same time, may lead to the emergence of purpose, of finality. The process by which Reality emerges from chaos and becomes structured into increasingly broad and articulated levels of growing complexity is the Process of Formation of Reality, the backbone of the model proposed here.

−	~~From every page~~ of ~~this work emerges~~ '''the ~~need to abandon determinism, especially radical determinism, which~~ is ~~also realism~~ in ~~a reductive sense~~'''. ~~Chance does not exist; God does not play dice~~. Reality ~~emerges from chaos. The process by which Reality emerges from~~ chaos and ~~is structured into increasingly broad and articulated levels~~ of ~~growing~~ complexity ~~is the Process of Formation of Reality~~, ~~the backbone of the model proposed here~~.	+	Therefore, even though the idea that chance does not lie at the foundation of Physical Reality cannot be considered correct, '''the opposite is not true either — that everything is chaos, and that everything must be expressed in probabilistic terms'''. In an extreme interpretation of indeterminism or probabilism, one might believe that order is an illusion. Instead, Reality is incessantly formed in the tension between chaos and order — in chaos–order processes expressed as dynamic disequilibria around peaks of organized complexity. Determinism and indeterminism are not opposed. '''Indeterminism contains determinism as a special case, a limit case, an approximation, an image seen from afar'''.

−
−	'''But the opposite is not true either, that everything is chaos, as we might believe in an extreme interpretation of indeterminism / probabilism'''. As we have just recalled, Reality is incessantly formed in the tension between chaos and order, in chaos - order processes that are expressed in dynamic disequilibrium around peaks of organization of complexity. The two terms, determinism and indeterminism, are not opposed. '''One, indeterminism, contains the other, determinism, as a special case, a limit case'''. Or rather, as an approximation, or an image seen from afar.
−
−	'''But the opposite is not true either: everything is not chaos'''. In an extreme interpretation of indeterminism or probabilism, one might believe that order is an illusion. Instead, Reality is incessantly formed in the tension between chaos and order — in chaos–order processes expressed as dynamic disequilibria around peaks of organized complexity. Determinism and indeterminism are not opposed. '''Indeterminism contains determinism as a special case, a limit case''', an approximation, an image seen from afar.

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 From every page of this work emerges '''the need to abandon determinism, especially radical determinism which is also realism in a reductive sense''': chance does not exist, God does not play dice. Reality emerges from chaos. The process by which Reality emerges from chaos and is structured in increasingly broad and articulated levels of growing complexity is the Process of Formation of Reality, which is the backbone of the model of description of Reality hypothesized and proposed here.
-'''But the opposite is not true either, that everything is chaos, as we might believe in an extreme interpretation of indeterminism / probabilism'''. As we have just recalled, Reality is incessantly formed in the tension between chaos and order, in chaos - order processes that are expressed in dynamic disequilibriums around peaks of organization of complexity. The two terms, determinism and indeterminism, are not opposed. '''One, indeterminism, contains the other, determinism, as a special case, a limit case'''. Or rather, as an approximation, or an image seen from afar.
+From every page of this work emerges '''the need to abandon determinism, especially radical determinism, which is also realism in a reductive sense'''. Chance does not exist; God does not play dice. Reality emerges from chaos. The process by which Reality emerges from chaos and is structured into increasingly broad and articulated levels of growing complexity is the Process of Formation of Reality, the backbone of the model proposed here.
 The processes that characterize what we describe as deterministic dynamic systems, the systems of classical physics, are precisely '''deterministic processes in which the physical quantities involved can be determined with arbitrary certainty'''. It is true that in the classical field there are fields in which chaos erupts, but this is determined by the complexity of the system and the relationships between the parts (deterministic chaos, chaotic attractors, etc.). But this chaos is not ontological, it does not concern the very nature of Reality, of fundamental entities, of the most elementary processes, as in the field of quantum phenomena, intrinsically indeterministic.
 Therefore, '''Classical Information as a subset, a particular case of Quantum Information. Or better yet, both as evolutionary stages of the Formation of Reality'''. Phases that coexist in nested levels of Reality. '''Classical Information as a sort of "certain" cherry on an immense and underground "uncertain" cake, Quantum Information'''. But the whole cake, if we want to describe it completely and in depth, can only be described by Processes that are and must be, at the same time, indeterministic (probabilistic, stochastic) and deterministic (classical).
 '''The two components will have different weights and dynamics depending on whether we are analyzing the movement of an electron in an atom, or even more so, of a quark in a nucleon, or if we are measuring the movement of a galactic bubble in a cluster of galaxies, or even just the position of the moon with respect to the earth'''. It is clear that it is a matter of choosing what we want to do. If we intend to measure the distance of the moon with a precision of one tenth of the diameter of a proton, assuming that we can build such a precise instrument (an ad hoc interference?), the weight of the indeterminate, probabilistic component will be present and will introduce a quantity of uncertainty, but it will weigh very little (because one tenth of the diameter of a proton is thought to be about 0.84 femtometers, or 0.84 times 10 to the -15 meters, compared to an average distance of 384,400,000 meters, always a very small quantity). Furthermore, the position, movement, speed, acceleration, size, etc. of the moon and the earth, as well as the extension and shape of Space-time, in which this system is immersed, are in constant fluctuation.
 '''In short, it is about perspective, about desired / necessary precision, possible...''' The meaning of these words is that '''what we call classical Information, even when it is not affected by deterministic chaotic components, is always an approximation, in a certain sense an illusion, that chaos does not exist'''. And instead chaos is always there, in the factory of Reality, at the most elementary level, ontological chaos, and if we do not see it it is because either we do not want to see it deliberately because it disturbs us, or we are looking at the scene from afar and the resolution of our eyes is not sufficient to make us see it. Approximation or illusion, or both things together. Thinking carefully, we can say that in many occasions it is useful and comfortable to reason about Physical Reality without this uncomfortable inconvenience: chaos, uncertainty, indeterminacy.
 {{Template:PaperPages1}}